|
Post by Cless Aileron on Jul 24, 2015 2:43:37 GMT -5
So, it's been some time since I posted in these forums and the first thing I do coming back is now ranting about my whole hype backlash towards Tales of Vesperia.
Honestly, there was a time I loved it. Like back in 2008 when it was released for Xbox 360. Over time, even though I was willing to go for all the achievements in the 360 version, I'm now at the point where the hype has hit me so hard I now deal with a backlash with it. I think it definitely came from a mix of critics and worshippers.
Maybe it doesn't help that people have complain about the quality of Tales dropping as of late that Vesperia is treated like the last great Tales game, though I'm starting to feel like even Vesperia has a drop in quality. I mean, how can it be considered the greatest game ever when that awful third act was so poorly written that it really should have discredited the rest of the story. No one, I mean, no one thinks the third act is good. Seriously, it doesn't make a lick of sense within the story, it came out of nowhere, and just say, "You know how we were trying to write a story about justice? Screw that! Let's throw this random crap in here!" Then again, it's not like the rest of the story was that well written either when things just happen conveniently off screen.
Yuri, Yuri, Yuri! He's treated like the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm starting to even compare him to Tommy Oliver from Power Rangers (in that, even when there's characters that are legitimately better than them, they're still treated as the greatest character ever. Yes, let's all blindly worship the Green Ranger!). Oh, he's not so animu, I hear. What about character depth then? Just because he's not falling into those so-called anime traps doesn't mean he's a good character. Like how just because a character isn't likable doesn't mean they're not good characters. I'm just getting sick of him. Even Luke Fon Fabre would be a breath of fresh air compared to Yuri.
Oh yes, let's not forget the PS3 version of the game. It gets hyped up like it's a gift from heaven when they didn't exactly rewrite the story much but just tacks on a pirate loli I'm supposed to like or something & Flynn having more screen time, no matter how tacked in it is (Honestly, I don't even find any reason for him to be along longer).
I think the biggest thing is that I'm too much of a moron to previously realize I was enjoying crappy writing. Apparently, I do have a critical mind, why am I not using it but instead being a blind fanboy? I feel like I want to go back to 2008, smack myself of that year, and give him a harsh education of what bad writing is and make him realize Tales of Vesperia is poorly written. I especially want to smack myself of that year for even thinking there was nothing wrong with the third act (and you damn well know there is something wrong there).
Again, just because the quality of Tales may or may not be dropping doesn't actually mean Vesperia wasn't guilty of dropping in quality. Maybe, the hype behind Vesperia finally made me snap that I really can't stand this game anymore and I'm willing to be more critical over it!
|
|
|
Post by Friendly Person :) on Jul 26, 2015 5:21:48 GMT -5
It's late, I'm tired, and I'm still really brain dead (as I have been the last two weeks) so consider this a quick post and blah blah whatever. It sounds like you're letting the fanbase ruin your impression of something you used to enjoy, and I think we've all been there. I can agree that Vesperia is probably overpraised when people never shut up about a port that we obviously won't get. Doesn't mean if there's a PS4/5/6/7/8 updated version of Vesperia with all the PS3 content, I won't buy it in a heartbeat because Vesperia (360, as I haven't played the PS3 version) is still my favourite Tales game.
I'd say right now Tales is going through some 'growing' pains. It seems that since Xillia Bamco, Baba, the team themselves, or WHOEVER have been making some really odd decisions. They keep pumping out games without taking the time to polish them, or completely learn from their past mistakes. Then these new games have some kind of new feature that doesn't quite work, but could be worked out in a sequel. For example: Xillia featured a 3d camera, but blob-like corridors for environments. Zestiria worked on that, but also added seamless battles, which lead to camera and framerate issues. I'd argue that part of the reason Vesperia is so loved is because it expanded on what the earlier Team Symphonia games established, presenting a level of polish that the series hasn't reached since. You might note that I've skipped over Graces, because even though I don't like the game, I still think it's a complete Tales experience.
As for part 3 of Vesperia, I can honestly say it's never bothered me. Then again, I never much cared about the PLOT of Vesperia. I don't play Tales games for PLOT, I play them for the fun characters. Let's face it - asspull third acts are pretty common in JRPGs (Star Ocean 3 anyone?). I'm not defending Vesperia's plot, but good or bad the fact is the game had fun and engaging characters to pull you through the lacking bits, which is more than could be said for a lot of games I've played. Maybe you disagree. I'm too tired to type some paragraph about the nature of opinions, so take it for what it is.
Yuri is one of those fun characters. He is my favourite protagonist because he's just so damn fun. His sarcasm, his generally laid back attitude, and the way he embraces the genre tropes (the importance of friends, trusting each other, you can really do it if you believe) without letting those things define his character. Does he have the character transformation of Luke? No. Does that instantly make him a bad character? No. He's entertaining, and that's the best possible thing he could be in this type of game.
Being critical isn't a bad thing, but letting allowing your opinions to be swayed by the masses, especially so extremely, is. When it comes to video games, I tend to be a SUPER critical person (I am of the opinion that video game stories can only be compared to other video game stories, because the best video game story becomes garbage when compared to other mediums). There have been times in my life where I've been extremely excited for something and then been extremely let down. The end result (after a few days/months of delusion) is hate of said thing. But in revisiting those things several years down the line, I find myself able to appreciate it for what it is, rather than what I, or ANYBODY ELSE, claimed it to be. Or maybe your personal tastes have simply changed. I know mine have. I used to think Slipknot was the greatest band ever. Now I'd rather listen to the mating sounds of a dying walrus.
And with that line I think I've hit my limit tonight. Look forward to the post-sleep edit when I try to make sense of this mess I've just typed.
|
|
Derman
Oracle Knight
I still don't have a knife tag on my golden birth knife
Posts: 194
|
Post by Derman on Jul 26, 2015 9:55:48 GMT -5
I have not had the energy to respond to you in the past week (I've been basically sleeping all my free time) and I didn't feel like writing a response while I'm tired and the whole post would end up as incomprehensible mess. I have to disagree with the "Vesperia was a drop in quality" thing though.
Technically speaking, Vesperia was a solid game. I didn't encounter any graphical issues at all during my 3 playthroughs and I'm not aware of any bug. The controls were responsive, not annoying menu choices, the system was explained clearly and there were really no pointless gimmicks that most JRPGs tend to put in these days. The combat never got boring for me, unlike Graces or Innocence. The crafting system was useful and simple (unlike Graces, which wasn't really bad either), characters fairly balanced and all of them were fun to play (compared to Symphonia's Genis for example). Art style and graphics look good even in today's standards, although the facial animations were pretty simple. Still, the game is one of the better looking JRPG's I've seen. Dunno about the standard framerate in the game but can't say I encountered any FPS drops at all, so that's a huge plus too compared to Zestiria for example. Overall the game was well designed and constructed experience.
The writing, as a whole (the basic storyline) was not that great. It had its highs and lows (the final act). It started out well enough to keep me interested so that's good enough for me. Definitely not ultra-high quality but it was fine. The individual skits and dialogues on the other hand were some of the best Tales has ever had. The dialogue was never as cringeworthy as FF13 or Eternia and even compared to some cRPGs it's pretty solid. One of the better JRPG translations definitely. Of course as a not-native english speaker I wouldn't really recognize bad writing as easily as you, but for me it was good enough. The last act was the standard JRPG crap, that's why people bashed it so much. The voice acting was great in my opinion.
Characters were good, especially Yuri. As Grain said, as a character he did avoid the most common pitfalls of JRPG protagonists with the same backstory and development. His dialogue was well-written and add in the fact that Yuri-Flynn relationship is basically the same as me and my brother, just more serious, he easily became the most relatable character in the game for me. Can't say the same about any else tales protagonist (except Luke I guess).
So no, I can't agree with you. If anything, Vesperia was probably the most polished tales game. Symphonia suffers from outdated graphics and under-developed system, as does most other tales games before Vesperia. I've not played many of the after-vesperia games so can't compare them, but as far as games before it are concerned, Vesperia is not a drop in quality, in my opinion. Sure, people might over-praise the game to some extent and Grain is right about other people ruining your experience. Opinions are opinions so can't really change that, I don't think you can objectively measure the quality of a game over another, at least not very easily.
As I've written this, I feel like my thoughts have been clouded a bit by nostalgia goggles, but I'll go for it anyway. If you disagree with me, just blame it on personal differences and those damn goggles which I just can't remove.
|
|
|
Post by Appl Jack on Jul 27, 2015 16:36:53 GMT -5
I'd have to agree that Vesperia is not the Magnum Opus of all jrpgs. However, this is still my favorite in the series. Like grainofariver said its more like the fanbase making you hate it, which is understandable and reasonable. What made this game for me wasn't the story, it was the gameplay and characters. As main characters go Yuri is pretty interesting and not your typical, but also not without faults. 360 version was awesome since he was voiced by my favorite voice actor Troy Baker, who does an incredible job with a lot of his works.
If I had to pick a main character over Yuri or as a close second it'd have to be Luke. Luke's character development pretty much made the game. Yuri's has it points where you just look at him and think, "really man?" He tends to be pretty brash and is a bit lacking in expression for a MC. You can see the cycle of Yuri moments: Do what I want, take the situation lightly, occasionally get angry, lonewolf. Pretty much that on repeat for a good chunk of the game.
The PS3 version is even more fun since it amped up the difficulty and added a ton of more content that just makes it fun. For the most part that's really it, Vesperia is just fun. That's not to discredit the other and more recent games, Xillia/Xillia 2 are also enjoyable and I like the depth and character interactions more than Vesperia.
Your right about the game not being the greatest story written by man and the characters aren't the best. You also should go ahead and play the more recent games for yourself. Just as you may not like ToV anymore unlike some others you might like the newer ones unlike them as well. Personally I complain about em but I do like them.
|
|
|
Post by jizzle701 on Aug 8, 2015 9:22:01 GMT -5
I don't think vesperia is overhyped but I sure think Yuri is. When you compare him to other Tales protagonists he seems like the ultimate lord because almost every other character is a basic jrpg hero but if you compare him to other Hero's from different series you'll see he's not all that. My feelings about him may stem from so many characters getting a Yuri Lowell cameo costume and not Lloyd Irving or anybody else for that matter I'm just tired of seeing it ?. Maybe the lovechild of Yuri and Milla in the upcoming game can dethrone him.
|
|
|
Post by Hiro the Half-Elf on Nov 22, 2015 3:30:25 GMT -5
I've been seeing a lot of people talk about Vesperia lately- comparing the new games against Vesperia, and basically using it as a new benchmark for Tales games. It's odd to me, since back when it came out, its flaws were pretty apparent: despite the likable cast, it's a half-written mess of a story. The battle system wasn't a particular step up or down or in any new direction, just a moderate improvement on Symphonia without the more fiddly bits introduced in other games.
Given the time that's passed, though, I think it is the new Symphonia. Makes sense, being the most like Symphonia of the games by that team. It's more conservative in both writing and game system than, say, Abyss, so it cleaves closer to the old ToS standard. Let us not forget the absolute hype train that was Symphonia! And as long as I'm drawing comparisons- let's just restate that Symphonia is the Final Fantasy VII of this franchise. The jump to the third dimension, the newfound audience that fell deeply in love with the game, a game which has largely lain untouched in the past five years (or more)... It even has its own really bad spin-off game.
As for the question of whether or not Yuri is overblown: He is. He's an alright dude that people make out to be the greatest RPG protagonist since sliced bread. He's really not, and honestly I don't think he's the best Tales protagonist. Like you guys have said, it's easy to compare him to other Tales protagonists and say "See?! He's not cliche!" but he has no particular depth or arc, or even any particular passion. Even in his own universe, he's a character that just goes with the flow.
(Still, though, my favorite parts of Vesperia are the Yuri/Judith interactions. Those characters synergize really well- the flirting comes off as authentic and joking at the same time, as it might among fantasyland adults. They come off as the mom and dad of the party... hard to not see why, given the other party members and the target demographic of the game. Still, I would never fault Vesperia for its party dynamic- that was the one spot where it actually shone)
|
|
|
Post by Pássaro on Nov 22, 2015 8:35:07 GMT -5
I've been seeing a lot of people talk about Vesperia lately- comparing the new games against Vesperia, and basically using it as a new benchmark for Tales games. It's odd to me, since back when it came out, its flaws were pretty apparent: despite the likable cast, it's a half-written mess of a story. The battle system wasn't a particular step up or down or in any new direction, just a moderate improvement on Symphonia without the more fiddly bits introduced in other games. Given the time that's passed, though, I think it is the new Symphonia. Makes sense, being the most like Symphonia of the games by that team. It's more conservative in both writing and game system than, say, Abyss, so it cleaves closer to the old ToS standard. Let us not forget the absolute hype train that was Symphonia! And as long as I'm drawing comparisons- let's just restate that Symphonia is the Final Fantasy VII of this franchise. The jump to the third dimension, the newfound audience that fell deeply in love with the game, a game which has largely lain untouched in the past five years (or more)... It even has its own really bad spin-off game. As for the question of whether or not Yuri is overblown: He is. He's an alright dude that people make out to be the greatest RPG protagonist since sliced bread. He's really not, and honestly I don't think he's the best Tales protagonist. Like you guys have said, it's easy to compare him to other Tales protagonists and say "See?! He's not cliche!" but he has no particular depth or arc, or even any particular passion. Even in his own universe, he's a character that just goes with the flow. (Still, though, my favorite parts of Vesperia are the Yuri/Judith interactions. Those characters synergize really well- the flirting comes off as authentic and joking at the same time, as it might among fantasyland adults. They come off as the mom and dad of the party... hard to not see why, given the other party members and the target demographic of the game. Still, I would never fault Vesperia for its party dynamic- that was the one spot where it actually shone) I disagree to an extent. Well, the only part I disagree with is it being the "new Symphonia." I don't believe Vesperia was the entry point for an entire generation of Tales fans ala Symphonia. If anything, I would give that title to Graces; as a majority of today's demographic in regards to Tales fans came on board with Graces. Vesperia often gets its claim to fame due to the depth of the battle system as shown by various players over the years. At this stage in Tales releases I do find it a bit odd as well that Vesperia gets placed high on a pedestal. I love the game, but playing it now definitely doesn't leave the best impressions as it did in the past. Probably because Innocence/Hearts R more or less does a bit better in the battle system department, as a step up from Vesperia.
|
|