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Post by Youngster Joey on Apr 19, 2012 9:52:25 GMT -5
If a woman takes testosterone, is she a man?
now
this is manly
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Post by Captain Zelar on Apr 19, 2012 15:03:19 GMT -5
^ Men = Male Women = Female
Thus no, women can't be men since they aren't male. But women can be manly and men can be girly.
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Post by Kise Ryota on Apr 19, 2012 15:20:27 GMT -5
Come at me BRO! HURR HURR *fistpump*
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Post by Youngster Joey on Apr 19, 2012 15:26:50 GMT -5
^ Men = Male Women = Female Thus no, women can't be men since they aren't male. But women can be manly and men can be girly. Certainly, in terms of biological sex, one can only be one or the other (well, you could have Klinefelter's, I suppose, but that's splitting hairs). But what about gender? There's a distinction there. Gender identity isn't just about the body, but about the brain as well. They've actually done studies that show that transsexual people have brain structures more similar to the sex they want to transition to.
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Post by Captain Zelar on Apr 19, 2012 15:35:46 GMT -5
Similar is not the same. Ones sex is determined by ones sex organs, hence the name sex.
Male and Female are terms to identify with ones physical gender. Even if you are mentally a man, if you are female, than you're still a woman and such.
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Post by Hiro the Half-Elf on Apr 19, 2012 16:15:30 GMT -5
I'm hurt, Zelar. I really am.
That's not sarcasm.
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Post by Captain Zelar on Apr 19, 2012 16:22:42 GMT -5
Why, physically speaking it's how it is. We can't control how we came into this world.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to physically be what you may mentally be, but the truth is you can't truly be what you physically aren't. A woman trapped in a mans body is still a man despite any surgery they may have, since they still have a Y chromosome.
This doesn't mean people can't act or feel what they want, it just means we can't change what we are no more then a leopard can change it's spots. Now in the future there may be a way to change ones physical self to that of another gender to a degree of being truly that sex, but currently it isn't possible.
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Post by Hiro the Half-Elf on Apr 19, 2012 16:44:26 GMT -5
I would argue that the majority of transwomen as well as transmen would take considerable offense that you would insist on labeling them by virtue of their chromosomes alone. You can be a biological male and not be a man.
Besides that, SRS is quite advanced these days. You would say that a transman with a sexually-functional phallus isn't a man? Or a transwoman with a sexually-functioning girl thingy (way to go censorGee, thanks, Obama)? What, just because they can't make kids? Does that make people who are infertile asexual? Must we refer to them as "it"s?
There is much more to transgender than "girly men" and "manly girls." Your viewpoint is extremely unfair and demonstrates a lack of empathy. In fact, it's even a little bit condescending. I remain offended.
Also, well, modern medical science could very well change a leopard's spots.
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Post by Youngster Joey on Apr 19, 2012 16:48:12 GMT -5
Zelar, if you saw Jenna Talackova on the beach, would you call her male? She was biologically born a man. But in every respect other than her anatomy, she is a woman. Her body, her mind, her lifestyle, everything. She presents herself as a female, and people interpret her as such. You would have no idea she was even a man if I hadn't told you. Of course it's not possible to change sex in the pure chromosomal sense because that's beyond the our current comprehension of genetics. But it is certainly possible to change genders because that's an mental identity. I don't see what's wrong with it, either; how does it affect me if a man wants to become a woman? It doesn't in the slightest. Live and let live and let people categorize themselves as they please. Here's something for you, Zelar. What do you make of people with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome? They've got XY chromosomes, but because of a genetic inability to recognize testosterone, they develop like females and identify as such. It's only when they don't develop secondary sex characteristics in puberty that it becomes apparent they're not actually female. Are they not women to you?
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Post by Captain Zelar on Apr 19, 2012 17:03:57 GMT -5
What are they considered biologically? That is my point, there are biological differences that are there and for people with disorders that deal with their biological self then that makes them biologically unique. No matter what I or anyone else thinks, they are biologically what they are biologically. They can mentally be a man or a woman, they can live like a man or a woman, they can be treated as a man or a woman, but biologically speaking no one has any choice in it. Personally I don't care about gender other then for deciding who will be my life partner since I'm attracted to feminine traits, which can also belong to males, but I also want my life partner to be able to mother my children biologically as well as emotionally. When it comes to everything else then I judge people on who they are as an individual. So if someone wants to be identified as a specific gender then I will refer to them as such, but my point is this, biological identity is different then personal identity.
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Post by Hiro the Half-Elf on Apr 19, 2012 17:30:31 GMT -5
But biologically speaking, you do have a choice in it. You can get hormone-replacement therapy and sexual-reassignment surgery. Apart from the lack of reproductivity, the body will function as the intended sex entirely. The chromosome remains, but people are hardly just the output of their DNA.
I'm not one for tall blondes, but Jenna Talackova's pretty attractive. Looks better without those weird fake eyelashes, though. The fact that she's 6'1" makes me feel better about myself.
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Post by Captain Zelar on Apr 19, 2012 17:40:39 GMT -5
Well then fine, everything I've said is wrong then and I apologize if anything I said came off as offensive.
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Post by Hiro the Half-Elf on Apr 19, 2012 17:55:57 GMT -5
It's cool, just try to have a little sensitivity. I mean, some of us actually are transgender here. Well, maybe just me. Maybe Aoki, too, but that one insists on being mysterious.
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Post by Umbra on Apr 19, 2012 18:46:01 GMT -5
Gender and sex are whatever an individual identifies themselves as, regardless of what they were in the past biologically. It's the individual's right to decide this for themselves--not for anyone else to.
I see Hiro is already working on that.
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Post by Kise Ryota on Apr 19, 2012 19:32:54 GMT -5
I sometimes feel like man in a little girl's body...
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