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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 23, 2020 19:53:15 GMT -5
Another way of approaching it, which you may agree or disagree with but which has given me some thought, is how selfish it is to think that you deserve a purpose. I mean, if you believe that you need to have some purpose in life, it's essentially the same as feeling like there's something in life that only you can do, or that you can do better than anyone else. After all, what makes you (much less humanity as a whole) any more significant than anything else in the universe? Why are you so special that you have to have a purpose? That's an interesting POV, although I think it really comes down to how one defines "purpose." I disagree with the definition of "essentially the same as feeling like there's something in life that only you can do, or that you can do better than anyone else." I don't think purpose is that singular, or, at least, my definition does not have to be. I'm not sure if I think responsibility per se gives life meaning. I chafe a bit at the term "responsibility" because it makes it sound like an obligation, and obligations do not make life worth living. I think those sorts of things give life a baseline day-to-day purpose and avoid the doldrums of pointless monotony, but they don't give deeper meaning, necessarily. There are responsibilities we have because we have to, but could do without. And there are other things that we do because we are compelled to, because they matter to us and we would do them regardless of whether they were necessary. Those things do give you meaning; I don't consider them responsibilities, though. Maybe a word choice difference?
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Post by Friendly Person :) on Sept 23, 2020 20:20:56 GMT -5
In hindsight I agree my definition was a bit off-point, but hopefully if you remove the bit you quoted you can glean a more accurate definition. Ultimately the base assumption that your life has some "purpose" is to assume that you are capable of fulfilling that purpose. To assume that you can fulfill a purpose of a universal/cosmological scale means that by extension you assume a degree of universal/cosmological competency, to wit all secular evidence suggests no such thing exists. After all, to have universal/cosmological competency would be to have universal/cosmological significance, and if modern science has proven anything, it's the utter insignificance of humans beyond our own planet. Hopefully I did a better job explaining it that time? If I'm just making a mess of things, feel free to call me out.
Also ngl, didn't see Umbra's post on the last page for a while, so I couldn't figure out where the heck you were getting "responsibility" from. I was a very confused man for a minute there...
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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 23, 2020 22:26:39 GMT -5
Well, yes, humans are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I suppose that's part of what bothers me about not having a point--does anything actually matter? Of course, it's impossible to take up such a nihilistic philosophy, as even the most ardent nihilists have things that matter to them. (I mean, they might even argue that nothing truly matters to them--well, clearly others' opinion that they have some things that matter to them bothers them enough that they need to refute it. If it didn't matter, why bother?)
I was thinking about some questions related to this topic.
1) Are people who commit suicide selfish?
2) Do you support physician-assisted suicide? If yes, does your answer change if it's not, say, a terminally ill cancer patient, but a chronically depressed person or someone with treatment-resistant anorexia?
My answer to the first is no. I mean, it definitely has an impact on other people, but I don't think it's an inherently selfish act. Granted, I've never had someone in my life who die of suicide. My uncle did, but I was young, and my mother's family had sort of written him off as unwilling to help himself, and life kind of just went on for them (heartless?). Maybe I would feel differently if I did experience it. But I have seriously contemplated suicide, and let me tell you, that sh*t sucks. If you're thinking of ending it, you're in a lot of pain. I think it's pretty natural to want to end pain. Is it selfish for other people to want you to remain alive if you're suffering?
I do support physician-assisted suicide. Terminal and/or chronic physical illness is a no-brainer. Physician-assisted suicide in the case of mental illness is dicier because you might not want to commit suicide when you're of sounder mind, but ... not all mental illness is curable, and you might have truly exhausted all available options. So, I think the bar should be set higher in the case of mental illness, but it shouldn't be a precluding factor. For instance, if you developed anorexia in middle school and have been in and out of treatment centers for the better part of two decades and still keep relapsing, you know what, maybe your brain just doesn't work correctly and never will? (I believe this was an actual case in Britain, and she got her wish to die.)
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Post by Friendly Person :) on Sept 24, 2020 1:38:53 GMT -5
I don't know if it's totally accurate, but I think I'm what is close to an "existential nihilist": I truly don't believe that there is a cosmological purpose for our existence, but I think it's sufficient enough that we can create our own meaning for living. Think of life as a sandbox game like Minecraft: there is no ultimate objective given to you by a higher being, which allows you to turn the objective into anything you want it to be. Hilariously while I usually hate games like this, it's my life philosophy.
My answer to those questions that kinda builds on this, but it gets into some personal things that I'd really not post on a public forum, so if you're still interested I'll go into it next time I catch you on steam.
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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 24, 2020 8:26:47 GMT -5
The problem with games like Minecraft is they're deliriously fun for a while, but then you stop for a second and wonder, "Why am I playing this?" And then you never play again. Hmm.
Although, similar to real life, I still have a lot of fun with Minecraft when it's with friends. Just can't be bothered to play by myself anymore.
Sure, catch you on Steam sometime.
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Post by Umbra on Sept 24, 2020 18:34:55 GMT -5
I think we'll agree to disagree on the part about responsibility giving life meaning, since my defenses are likely going to be religious-based anyway.
This is a topic that is deeply personal to me, coming from someone who has been hospitalized twice for suicidal ideation. But I may be able to shed some light on it.
1). Yes, and no. I don't think it's clearly something that is black and white. The part of me that would say "no" sees the pain the person contemplating has. This pain is subjective, so no one else can actually feel like or know how much there is. One should seek out coping resources to cope with the pain. But if it is too much, a person reaches out, no one helps them, and they take their own life, then I believe it's the fault of humanity for not intervening and helping the person in deep mental turmoil. So it isn't selfish. This does not rid the person who commits of fault, however, for making the choice, but that's relevant to the question.
Now I would say "yes" in the instances where a person doesn't reach out and there is at least one person who loves them. Suicide isn't, nor should it be, a decision that is made easily. Someone has to commit which means they have to go through with the action. Suicide is something that is against humanity, some would call it a crime even. We are not conceived, born nine months later, and raised by parents to harm our bodies and destroy the person we are. You are yourself but you are also part of the whole. Ripples are felt in the absence of someone who has died, ripples that trickle down and through. Is "death" a triggering word, as in can you feel it in your spine when you hear it, a cold sensation at your neck? What about "died," as in "died in a car accident"? Possibly. "Passed away"? Probably not as much as "death," am I right? Now what about "rape," "murder," "suicide," "abortion." You should be revulsed by these words because they're wrong. In most cases, suicide is selfish in that you destroy the gift of life you've been given and all that you would contribute to the world goes down the drain? "Well, I never asked to have been born." And yet here you are like the Big Bang. Life has been given to you. How do you deal with living? You wouldn't kill a friend who is suffering, so why would you kill yourself? "But I have nothing to contribute, anyway." That is depression speaking.
2) When I was an inpatient at a psych ward for depression and suicidal thoughts, I met this troubled comic named Mark. Now Mark was a funny guy, often making self-deprecating jokes and just being a jolly guy to be around. It's how he coped with his problem, depression related to the fact that he couldn't turn his neck or bend his back AT ALL. He had to have assistance even putting socks on. As more inpatients were being discharged, myself included, I saw the true face of hopelessness when he realized everyone was leaving and yet there he was still with no hope. Inpatients tried to help him, but couldn't. Psychiatrists tried to help him, but couldn't. He would keep going back to talking about his physical condition and the fact that he can't work or get social security and that he'd have to go back to living out of his car. Now, if I were a physician, would I assist him in his suicide? That's a f**king difficult question I'm not prepared to answer.
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Post by Friendly Person :) on Sept 26, 2020 2:13:32 GMT -5
I'm a simple man: there is a steelbook version of Your Name, I buy steelbook version of Your Name.
Simple.
Remember when life was simple?
I miss being 7 too.
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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 26, 2020 10:59:07 GMT -5
Life has been given to you. How do you deal with living? You wouldn't kill a friend who is suffering, so why would you kill yourself? "But I have nothing to contribute, anyway." That is depression speaking. This is an interesting take for people who are suicidal in this manner. Effective, even, if your reasoning is that you're a waste of space or something. Not all suicidal thoughts stem from self-hatred (it's never for me), but for some people, it does. I really wish I could throw myself into a sandbox game. But I give so few (no) f**ks about anything nowadays that a sandbox game feels completely pointless and boring. I miss the days when I could just play The Sims for weeks on end. The idea of brutally murdering Sims for looking ugly the way I did when I was 13 sounds fun, but, realistically, I'll turn the game on for 10 minutes and get bored. Everything is boring! Boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring.
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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 26, 2020 14:12:01 GMT -5
I've downloaded Windows 98 on my Mac and am now mad with power.
No longer must I get up out of bed to play old games on my Windows desktop. I can remain in bed like the giant Jabba the Hutt I am!
These old 90s games I'm downloading will provide me with exactly 10 minutes of entertainment. It's perfect.
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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 26, 2020 20:50:57 GMT -5
1. Install Windows 98 2. No sound, have to find drivers 3. Install Daemon Tools 4. Daemon Tools won't launch 5. Eventually install and load The Sims through VMWare 6. Can't find working serial key 7. Finish installing; get told DirectX 7 not found, but I have Direct X? 8. Determine I have DirectX 8 (probably because of Daemon Tools), discover DirectX can't be downgraded 9. Reinstall OS 10. Reinstall The Sims 11. Am told my video card does not support "thousands of colors" 12. Try to find a driver. Last posts on this topic from 2009. 13. Install driver. Windows 98 is very unhappy 14. Driver includes Direct X 8. f**k. 15. Give up, install Windows XP 16. Can't find serial keys 17. Install The Sims 1 18. Decide I'd rather play The Sims 2 19. Can't find serial keys 20. Install The Sims 2 21. Run out of memory 22. Delete gobs ofcrapfrom my laptop 23. Graphics flashing pink everywhere. Video card not supported. Tweak settings after Googling, seems okay. 24. Make Sim. Graphics flashing red everywhere. Seizure-inducing. 25. f**k off and give up
Mad with power, indeed. f**k you, video card.
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Post by Friendly Person :) on Sept 26, 2020 21:35:44 GMT -5
At least you weren't bored?
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Post by Friendly Person :) on Sept 27, 2020 2:06:45 GMT -5
Holy shite, Oregairu had an entire episode of falling action and wrapping up loose ends. It's beautiful to not only see an anime get an ending (such a stupid rarity), but to actually see a proper one with closure. Good sh*t.
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Post by Umbra on Sept 27, 2020 2:16:44 GMT -5
Life has been given to you. How do you deal with living? You wouldn't kill a friend who is suffering, so why would you kill yourself? "But I have nothing to contribute, anyway." That is depression speaking. This is an interesting take for people who are suicidal in this manner. Effective, even, if your reasoning is that you're a waste of space or something. Not all suicidal thoughts stem from self-hatred (it's never for me), but for some people, it does. For some it could be the idea that one is a waste of space, for others it could be due to too much pain, mental or physical. This is from the depression side of reason for suicide, which is only one reason of course for taking the action. Some people kill themselves for seemingly no reason, or over something minuscule. But surely that is mental illness, if not then something that is wrong, because the animal kingdom by and large does not seem to take these measures. It doesn't make sense from an evolutionary standpoint. I notice I've said a lot of controversial things just recently but no response from you. You either agree with me or you've softened up over the years. lol Drinking beer and playing Tony Hawk's ProSkater 1&2. It's the one sandbox I play right now, and hey, it's not very hard to get into. Nothing quite like a midnight Wendy's burger.
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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 27, 2020 10:46:09 GMT -5
I've softened up considerably over the years, yes, hah. I'm not as irascible as I used to be. Also, my interest in debating on the internet has waned a lot in general. I cringe at the thought that I used to get into arguments with randos on random sites ten years ago... I find writing walls of text to be work, and not as satisfying as just talking back-and-forth with someone real-time. I think the fact that you have to put up your rebuttal all at once shifts the tone of the conversation from a back-and-forth dialogue to "here's why you're wrong", and makes it harder to find a middle ground.
Also, I've reread some of my posts from back then, and I was kind of an a**. Facts Trump Everything And If Your Feelings Are Hurt, Not My Fault Because You're Wrong. I wonder if I'm going to look back on my posts in ten years and cringe at me now...
And, yes, you are correct, grain, I was not bored yesterday. FRUSTRATED IS BETTER THAN BORED. I'm back on the case today. I really want to figure out if I can run The Sims 2 on my Mac. I've appealed to the VMWare subreddit for what I suspect are some n00by questions, because so far I've done a lot of digging through posts from the 2000s, and you can see where that's gotten me. It would be nice to hear some words of wisdom from the present.
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Derman
Oracle Knight
I still don't have a knife tag on my golden birth knife
Posts: 194
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Post by Derman on Sept 27, 2020 14:23:58 GMT -5
I was going to ask if you had tried Wine, but forgot MacOS Catalina was a thing. I doubt Wine would work without 32-bit libraries... Then I guess Virtual Machines is really the best option. Running old games on Win 98 virtual machine sounds like quite an adventure, especially on Mac. I never had to endure the times when windows didn't include drivers by default, and you had to manually install all kinds of crap to get things running. I wish I could help, but my Windows knowledge is rather limited.
But you are absolutely right that frustrated is better than bored. I spent hours few days ago trying to get my controller to work with a game, and I didn't really get anywhere. But at least I wasn't bored.
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