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Post by Cless Aileron on Sept 11, 2009 3:47:09 GMT -5
Okay, I already know saying something like this is pretty much a death wish (and I'm still expecting one). But honestly, I just want to get this out in the open. No matter how many may end up saying it, I still can't help but feel like I'm the only one that didn't like this game. Maybe because my displeasure with this game runs so deep, no matter how hard I try not to hate it so much. I'm willing to say that I think Tales of the Abyss is the most overrated game in the Tales series (P.S. Please don't try to convince me Tales of Symphonia is. Tales of the Abyss is the one I really find overrated). If I go into details, it'll be too long of a post, but I'll say a few major gripes. I thought the story was horrible, even by Tales standards. The pacing was off and drags the story on with barely anything going on during that time. Also, I have to say that Tales of the Abyss is just a cliché as any other Tales but this one didn't really do anything mind blowing with the clichés here and does not come off as any more mature as any other Tales game. Also, no matter how much I try to tolerate this character (and I'm willing to admit the anime actually manage to not make this character annoying for me but it didn't seem enough for me to change my mind now since the game is the original), I really couldn't stand Luke Fon Fabre. He has to be my most hateable Tales character! I know people will throw that he's a "legit emo" (man, I hate using the term emo but whatever), but the way he's portrayed makes that invalid (and it could have been done right too and the anime showed that to me, even though it's too late to change my mind). Luke spoilers: I couldn't stand how many mentions of him saying, "I'm an inferior replica!" throughout the game, including skits. Not to mention, the writing really pushes his suicidal tendency as if he might as well say, "I'm an inferior replica! I'm going to go jump off a cliff because I shouldn't be here!" Honestly, I find that Luke Fon Fabre is as much as a whiny girl thingy as Emil! (I'll like to take this opportunity to say, 1. Yes, I went there! 2. Yes, I'm very aware I'm being a hypocrite here!) But Luke Fon Fabre comes off as so hateable that I have a hard time feeling sorry for him and is probably the only Tales character I want to punch in the face as hard as I can (I avoided the M-rated analogies here)! Whatever intention that I was able to see with the character was ruined by how he was written and lead to me hating him. And Tales of the Abyss was the only time I did not have fun in battle. It was too easy and free run becomes a lose-lose situation. The enemies were programmed as if they were still fighting in Tales of Symphonia, thus making free run broken and the battles too easy. But turning it off would make you play it Tales of Symphonia style and the outdated battle mechanics will just be as problematic fighting here in this game as it was in that game. Maybe because I know I'm like the 1% of the Tales fans out there that didn't like this game and would be punish for saying such blasphemy, but honestly, I really did not like it and can't help but feel frustrated I feel this way while everyone else is raving that Tales of the Abyss is the "Best Tales Ever!" because it's going to be such blasphemy! The thing is...I didn't think it was that great back then in 2006 and I still don't think it was that great now! Maybe it's time I get what's coming to me for thinking of this for Tales of the Abyss (and Luke).
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Post by OmoiNeko-JadeWolf on Sept 11, 2009 3:57:26 GMT -5
Blasphemy!
j/k
Seriously--you're entitled to your opinion, and there are are quite a few people here who would agree with you.
I agree that any character's repeated lines are annoying--that includes Luke, Asch, and Ion ("That's confidential to the order" got old quick).
But, as for your hatred for the game--that's your opinion, and nothing anyone will say will change it. So, don't be afraid.
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Post by sukotsuto on Sept 11, 2009 4:56:53 GMT -5
Lol I think you're not alone in not liking Abyss, if I can recall correctly. Anyway... Luke is definitely a love him or hate him kind of a main character, although a majority of us hates him early in the game. I actually didn't hate him as much as most did, even in his jerkass long hair mode. [spoilers] With that said, I feel more sorry for Luke and his unfortunate circumstances, and especially if I'm put in the same shoes. Speaking of being in the same shoes, I just thought about how I would feel if I were Luke: - Being forced to stay home like a captive for all my teen years will surely drive me crazy and extremely bored. - Being actually 7 years old, but people simply couldn't give me slack for being a child due to circumstances and how much I look more like I'm 17. - Knowing that I'm just a copy of some dude whom I felt I took his comfortable life and identity from will make me feel guilty for just being alive while this dude whose identity I've took had been feeling like crap for years. - In reality, I actually cut my hair kinda like a ritual to shed my old, undesired traits lol. Abby, Ada and Cleo were surprised when I cut my long hair short lol. [/spoiler] Given that, I probably hate Luke because I feel for the sap. Although gameplay-wise, people have all the reason to hate it because of the crappy frame rate of the world map, the long loading times (which I actually didn't mind, since I've experienced worser loading times in the 90s CD based games)and the lack of smoothness in graphics compared to Symphonia (which had smoother graphics). Still, for me, this is the best "Tales of" game ever. The story was a lot more mature than other "Tales of" games, and the battles were a lot more fun, especially on harder difficulties,to the point where a lot of times, I'd just spend hours looking for battles myself with my only intent is to have fun fighting (I'm not even thinking about leveling up), something I rarely do in other RPGs. Even with new releases, TotA stands as my #1 tales of game, and pretty much #1 PS2 RPG of all time for me. No RPG is perfect, but there are RPGs perfect for this or that person (ie TotA is good for me; FFXII is terrible for me), despite the flaws. Overall, I reckon whether this be the best or worst tales, we still bought it and played it, and the fact that we bought it also helped us promote potential future US "Tales of" releases (like ToV, which got released in the US for US fans last year). I'm actually replaying TotA right now, although it's too bad that I can't find the memory card I have that has my old TotA data.
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Post by Cless Aileron on Sept 11, 2009 6:45:04 GMT -5
Maybe all that time on GameFAQs really got to me. Many users on there being opinionated jerks that pretty much made me think, "An opinion is just some thing to hide behind to make you feel better about being wrong! Use your critical analysis, stupid!" *checks to make sure his Xbox Live gamercard in sig isn't showing Turtles in Time Reshelled and keeps his mouth shut about what he thinks about it (Hint: "I actually like it.")* <---Yeah, something like that. Or trying to realize that Tales of Legendia was actually that horrible. And it's also why I kept my mouth shut at the Tales Brigade and stayed hidden not long after it started. [spoilers] With that said, I feel more sorry for Luke and his unfortunate circumstances, and especially if I'm put in the same shoes. Speaking of being in the same shoes, I just thought about how I would feel if I were Luke: - Being forced to stay home like a captive for all my teen years will surely drive me crazy and extremely bored. - Being actually 7 years old, but people simply couldn't give me slack for being a child due to circumstances and how much I look more like I'm 17. - Knowing that I'm just a copy of some dude whom I felt I took his comfortable life and identity from will make me feel guilty for just being alive while this dude whose identity I've took had been feeling like crap for years. - In reality, I actually cut my hair kinda like a ritual to shed my old, undesired traits lol. Abby, Ada and Cleo were surprised when I cut my long hair short lol. [/spoiler][/quote] What got me was that they certainly were able to set it in a way I could have felt for him. However, the portrayal of Luke made me roll my eyes and I couldn't stand how he handled it and hated him because of how he acted. However, after seeing the anime adaptation, Luke wasn't as annoying as he was in the game (For some reason, I was thinking the adaptation might have been able to save the story for me and...I found the anime version to be decent, unlike the game. Nature of adaptation going in my favor maybe?). Pretty much, what got me to hate him was the awful writing in the game. They had a decent set up for it but they didn't pull it off well. Yeah, that horrible loading time. I even make remarks of it being so bad it's practically encouraging you to use unauthorized hacks to make it bearable (i.e. HDLoader). Heh. I almost mentioned that I enjoyed Final Fantasy XII more than Tales of the Abyss. Though it does get me to think of something. Tales has been criticized so much for being a derivative series that's milked hard and release 10 Tales games a year *exaggeration*. However, Abyss is treated as if it's not (and I call bull on that one). It's seen as one example of "What's wrong with JRPGs and why WRPGs are taking over" out there. It's not evolving! That's why Final Fantasy XII went the direction it did. Changed its battle system, changed up many things (like no separate battle screen), and cut down on the anime tropes. Yet, Final Fantasy XII ends up being the most hated Final Fantasy game since Final Fantasy II or Final Fantasy VIII, all because FF doesn't want to be trapped in the JRPG stereotypes (like anime tropes ahoy!) so many complain about (it's a case of unpleaseable fanbase). Not to mention, characters like Luke and Emil being things they show to prove what's wrong with JRPGs (i.e. the "emos" *ugh* It's still annoying, even when I'm using it). Also, I should mention with Tales, I lived by one thought in my head: "I know the stories in these games are not the greatest thing in the world, but they're something I enjoy and feel close to." (Umm...most of the time). Another one summing up the problem with the series: "Playing Tales games for the story is like playing Summon Night for the gameplay." Pretty much playing the games mainly for their weakness. Like I said, Abyss doesn't really shatters that latter quote for me and stumble to live up to my comment. Oh yeah, and just to point something out since they'll be some misunderstanding about what I said here: Honestly, I find that Luke Fon Fabre is as much as a whiny girl thingy as Emil! (I'll like to take this opportunity to say, 1. Yes, I went there! 2. Yes, I'm very aware I'm being a hypocrite here!) Now, if Yutalia here is hikari318 on LiveJournal, then she saw a post I did in a certain community about Emil and then here I'm treating Luke and Emil as one of the same (in other words, annoying wimps). That's why I had to say ahead of time, "Yes, I'm very aware I'm being a hypocrite here." I want to say that I said what I said here to bring up a little point here but I think there's an anti-Emil mob behind me and I'm being obligated to wish Emil a horrible death if I want to live. *Wow. That was long.*
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Post by Hinas on Sept 11, 2009 10:44:22 GMT -5
Spoilers below, read at your own risk!
I often feel the same as you; like I'm the only person in existence that doesn't think Abyss is the best Tales game on the market. Especially when I'm visiting this website, a website whose name is clearly referencing Tales of the Abyss.
I too, thought that the story was pretty bad. It had potential, but ended up to be, in my opinion, needlessly convoluted and yet boring all at once. There were pacing issues as well, like you said Cless. Another thing: the English version was terribly written and dubbed. I liked most of the voices in the English version, but the acting was terrible in every sense of the word.
Story aside; I did not like the characters much (except for Luke, he was cool) (Guy and Jade were okay). I thought that they were pretty boring up until the Akzeriuth scene. And then I just hated them all after that. Treat Luke as though he intended for everyone to die why don't you. Tear's "I was a fool to ever think that there was any good in you," especially angered me. Because of the above mentioned scene, I thought that Luke had every right to emo. Naturally, many would disagree with me, but I'd want to throw myself off of a cliff too if I was him.
As shallow as this is going to sound, I didn't like the graphics or the music very much. I think that was a large part of why I disliked Abyss as much as I did.
The battle is one thing that I did like. It was on the easy side, but it was still fun.
Exploration: I hated driving that damned Abiore. Normally, it was okay, but occasionally, I'd run into an obstacle and get permanently stuck in it. Bleh.
Abyss vs. Symphonia: Abyss should've been Tales of Symphonia: Problems fixed. That's what I expected it to be before I actually played it. A more in depth story, more dynamic characters, full 3D graphics, an enhanced battle system, the works. Many Tales fans would say that Abyss succeeded being ToS: Problems fixed and more. I don't, however. Symphonia may have had chibi graphics and a sterotypical plot, but the overall presentation (localization, graphics, storytelling, etc) was more solid than Abyss was, making it the better game to me.
This is all opinion and rambling, feel free to ignore me. I am, by no means, right about anything. This is all just how I felt.
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Post by Chochita Roeru on Sept 11, 2009 10:56:28 GMT -5
Oh wow I really really like your honest opinion.(I prefer to read other opinion from this perspective rather than the generic praise) I agree for almost all flaws you mentioned above and including the storyline
But one point plus for abyss..at least they had the plot Goes"inline". Unlike vesperia which got random and decreasing the badass plot into plain spirit hunting.
What I dun like is that they seem to be always focus on luke and luke, making other party member seemed like just a decoration role there(in tov, everyone got their own spotlight period, when the story focused on one of them in turn)
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Post by E on Sept 11, 2009 13:38:34 GMT -5
I can agree with you with some things and I respect that your opinions but Luke is basically the one that draws out the game mythology. Cause if they expect everyone to know it all then it is gonna be a little awkward to keep up (which is what the second half of the game kinda did to me).
Things I have to moan about: I absolutely hated Ion. Seriously, it is basically a girl (including design, ai and voice). Basically, he freaks me out (I wonder why Guy didn't).
Also in comparison to Symphonia, the graphics in general didn't look to good. On a nice HD LCD tv, it had jagged lines which are at least 3 pixels big! Definately looking scratchy. Only thing that looked pretty good were the flashy stuff like the FOF and the FOF changes as well as the Mystic Artes. Also I guess the anime cutscenes looked pretty sweet but other than that, it is painful to watch. Too bad the PS2 controller isn't at least 5m long so it can look better from the distance.
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Post by Youngster Joey on Sept 11, 2009 13:52:17 GMT -5
Hey, everyone's free to have their opinion. DotNW wasn't to my tastes, and Abyss wasn't to yours. No big deal. Everyone has their own preferences I'll concede, the music and graphics were awful. I'm not a stickler on these things and they literally never break or make my opinion of a game, but these aspects really could've been executed better. I really enjoy the story, but to each his own. What got me was that they certainly were able to set it in a way I could have felt for him. However, the portrayal of Luke made me roll my eyes and I couldn't stand how he handled it and hated him because of how he acted. However, after seeing the anime adaptation, Luke wasn't as annoying as he was in the game (For some reason, I was thinking the adaptation might have been able to save the story for me and...I found the anime version to be decent, unlike the game. Nature of adaptation going in my favor maybe?). Pretty much, what got me to hate him was the awful writing in the game. They had a decent set up for it but they didn't pull it off well. I thought that the anime made Luke much less whiny, too. (However, I liked the game Luke better because I found him more believable... people complain about him pulling a complete 180 in the game after Akzeriuth, but that has nothing on his transformation in the anime). Although Luke is my favorite character out of all the Tales games, I can totally understand why he would piss people off. He's really a love-or-hate sort of character, and his emotional problems are simply not going to appeal to some people. And don't worry about being a hypocrite. I love Luke, but I despise Emil with a passion. My only defense is that I think Luke has a good reason for being whiny, while Emil just doesn't. He's simply a pu$$y just because. Pana nailed my tolerance for Luke's whining right on the head with the below: Because of the above mentioned scene, I thought that Luke had every right to emo. Naturally, many would disagree with me, but I'd want to throw myself off of a cliff too if I was him. I liked most of the voices in the English version, but the acting was terrible in every sense of the word. I'm kind of confused about that... the voices were good but they were terrible...? Sort of offtopic, but I've always really wanted to ask this yet never got around to it. Cless, are you per chance on Phantasian Production's forums? There's a guy on there who I believe shares the same username and also writes quite similarly to you.
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Post by Blue Star on Sept 11, 2009 14:52:41 GMT -5
To answer your question: No, you are not the only one who thinks that Abyss isn't all that. ^_^ I thought the story was horrible, even by Tales standards. The pacing was off and drags the story on with barely anything going on during that time. Also, I have to say that Tales of the Abyss is just a cliché as any other Tales but this one didn't really do anything mind blowing with the clichés here and does not come off as any more mature as any other Tales game. I completely agree with this particular statement that you made here. Everyone is like, "Abyss' plot is so much better than Symphonia's (or any other Tales game) because it's more mature!" Personally, I don't see how it's any more mature. It just... Seems like every other typical JRPG/anime to me. :/ Like you, I disliked the plot quite a bit. It felt needlessly convoluted; no, I'm not saying that because I'm stupid and I didn't understand the plot. I did understand the plot. And it was just like any other typical anime/JRPG plot. For me, the plot was really easy to predict for the most part. I also didn't like the characters very much. This is probably the main reason that I disliked Abyss. While the main guys (Luke, Guy, and Jade) did eventually, key word being eventually, grow on me, I really didn't like anyone else [cough]Tear[cough]. I thought that the battle engine was cool, but here was my problem with it: I didn't like most of the characters as units. They were slow (Luke), boring (Tear, Jade), or just plain useless (Anise). Guy and Natalia were the only ones I liked in battle. I hated the graphics in this game. Hated them. Blurry and muddled are words that come to mind whenever I think of these graphics. More than anything, I think that Abyss was really overrated and my expectations were just too high for me to enjoy that game. :S To each their own, not everyone can have the same opinion on games. :'D
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Post by Blue Star on Sept 11, 2009 14:55:29 GMT -5
Sorry for the double post, just wanted to address something: I liked most of the voices in the English version, but the acting was terrible in every sense of the word. I'm kind of confused about that... the voices were good but they were terrible...? Voices != Acting. She's saying that the voices themselves fit the characters well, but the actual acting fell flat.
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Post by OmoiNeko-JadeWolf on Sept 11, 2009 17:45:26 GMT -5
People keep mentioning the pace... Well, I play the Suikoden series, and if you want to talk about pacing...then there's a lot of down times in those games, and that's my favorite series. And yes, Luke is more annoying in the game, because we're exposed to that side of him a LOT longer than in the anime. And his 180? He had an epiphany, that's all. He's the Ebenezer Scrooge of Tales of the Abyss. Only he didn't have three ghosts show him the error of his ways. He had a reality check from the people who HAD trusted him. And his emo side? He's allowed to be emo. Wouldn't you be if you found out the man you trusted only created you for a terrible reason, and thought you less than human? That your mere presence could change the world not for good but for bad? Yeah, his "maybe I shouldn't be alive" thing was justified. However, sometimes those things tend to go on too long. The angsty, emo teen in video games always seems to turn into a whiny brat (Tidus, anyone?).
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Post by ekhary on Sept 11, 2009 18:47:14 GMT -5
Possibly spoilers ahead-?-
Totally I respect all the opinions here and, I have to say when I met Luke for the first time was wonderful. The "always-the-same" stereotype of hero dissapeared with him. Luke is not idealist, is not a hero and he only lives because is there not because he wants to accomplish something in his life. He met his own path in a hard way: making mistakes and also, learned the meaning of his own live in the worst way possible.
Well, to tell the truth I love the spoiled-brat!Luke and I played the game not for graphics, not for music -and less for sub-, not for the characters... I played the game because the story could be more deep than anyone thinks but I'm not going to write a thesis about Abyss here -and my English is very bad right now XD-.
For a standard RPG -like Final Fantasy too- Tales of the Abyss, at least for me, is a very good your-average-game-not-so-average-for-me... The only two Tales of that I love are ToA and ToS and totally I prefer 1000 times a Tales of than a Final Fantasy -but I like some FF games-.
... but well, everyone has their own opinions here ^^ and -again- I respect all of them and I think they are a good feedback to understand how others see this game.
-And... this would be easier if I could write all in Spanish xDDDU *gets shot and dies*-
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Post by Cless Aileron on Sept 12, 2009 6:14:11 GMT -5
Nice to see what I said has been taken kindly here. Even some agreeing with me on what I thought about Abyss. Sort of offtopic, but I've always really wanted to ask this yet never got around to it. Cless, are you per chance on Phantasian Production's forums? There's a guy on there who I believe shares the same username and also writes quite similarly to you. Yep, that's me. That's actually the first Tales-related forums I have posted at (since 2003). (Though I admit there's posts there I'm not particularly proud of, especially recently but the regulars tend to be nice). And I haven't really seen anyone else try to get this name at other places.
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Post by kelocena on Sept 12, 2009 7:28:56 GMT -5
*raeges at teh Abyss haet*
I agree with most of the opinions here, but I still think that overall Abyss was a great game. The story itself wasn't terrible, it was actually enjoyable if somewhat predictable. However, there were definitely pacing issues and too much backtracking/running around doing nothing. And the music wasn't particularly impressive, either.
I must say in defense of certain characters (mostly Tear) that the voice actor really makes the difference. Her Japanese voice actor's portrayal makes her seem almost completely different from the English Tear.
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Post by Bewzew on Sept 12, 2009 7:58:34 GMT -5
Hey, I liked Jerk-Luke.. it was when he changed that I didn't like Abyss as much (No, I still love Abyss, I loved it more when he was a whiny brat =P) then again, that's just me.
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